Transcript for eLearning Video

This is a video recording of an eLearning event at York University where faculty members from an AIF project on eLearning shared their experience teaching a blended or fully online course with other faculty members interested in incorporating eLearning into their courses.

Hi everybody, I’m Susan Murtha and I’m the Associate Dean of Teaching and Learning in the Faculty of Health. And my co-sponsor for today’s event is Kim Michasiw who’s the Vice Dean in LAPS. He can’t make it for exactly this moment in time, but he said he would try to drop by later. And we both would like to thank you all for coming today. I’m going to begin by introducing the faculty members presenting today. You will notice that they are actually not up at the front here as a panel discussion. But instead, I’ve imbedded them at all of the tables around you, so that when it comes time for the roundtable discussions, they’re at your table with you, and can help to lead that discussion a little bit. Or maybe give you some advice or whatever you want to talk to them about. As I call each of the discussants names could you please stand so that people could match the name with the face. So Dr. Robin Roth is an Associate Professor in the Department of Geography. Thank you Robin. Dr. Lucy Gagliese is Associate Professor of the School of Kinesiology and Health Science. Thank you Lucy. Dr. Cael Zorn is a contract faculty in the Department of Philosophy, thank you, Cael. And Dr. Jennifer Steele, is an Associate Professor in the Department of Psychology. Thank you Jen. Each of these professors, took the time in 2012 and 2013, to participate in a jointly ran AIF project between the faculties of health and LAPS. To be part of our academic innovation-funded project, they participated in the E-learning at York Course, which is being offered by the Teaching Commons right now. To help them to create a blended or fully online course, by actually participating in the same type of course. Each of these folks allowed us, and when I say us, I mean mainly the Institute for Research and Learning Technologies to evaluate their websites and survey their students. So we evaluated them for variables such as the organization of the Moodle course site, instructional design and delivery, student support and resources, as well as student engagement. Although I don’t know their exact ratings for each variable, what I can tell you is that they were rated highly and definitely met the expectations for the design of a blended online course. Which is why I asked each of them to come today to showcase what they did. And speak to the lessons learned from their experiences. Now I know sitting in this room today there’s tons of people here who actually have additional experiences from their own learnings. And so, I can’t wait to hear what happens at the discussion time period when we get an opportunity to speak a little bit more openly about these things. So just in terms of some logistics for today. For the first hour, each faculty member will be invited up front to give an approximate 10 to 12 minute presentation. Some have PowerPoints prepared, others may just wish to tell you their story. At the end of each presentation there will be a few minutes for audience members to ask a couple of specific questions of that person. Ellen Sims, who is an educational developer in the Teaching Commons, who just put up her hand there, will be our facilitator and our moderator today. She is being helped by Yelin Su, who’s sitting here at this table who’s our E-learning specialist in the Teaching Commons. And they will facilitate, moderate the questions and the answers. And Ellen, Yelin will also keep track of time and so we’re going to keep these to 15 minutes at the most for each. Following that first part, we’re going to actually probably close down the video machines and then we’re going to have little round table discussions. Each table will come up with a couple pressing questions, they like to pose of the discussants and or of our specialists here. In terms of adapting a course to the blended or fully online format. At the end, or while dealing with these questions, Ellen and Yelin will sum up with some reflections and suggestions of literature, resources, and next steps to further develop yourself, if that’s what you choose to do in terms of your course. Okay so for your information, you all should have received e-copies of the description of the respective faculty members’ courses, that I sent out last week. As well as a list of guidelines for selecting courses to adapt to a blended or fully online format that was created by the Teaching Commons, in consultation with LAPS and Health when we did the AIF project. There are a few copies I put at each of those tables. So like I said we’re video recording the first hour so each of the faculty members presenting have a microphone on them. We will only have one spare microphone and that will be passed around by Ellen. So I’ll ask, just so we can record your questions at the end of each person’s talk, if you could put up your hand and she will bring you the microphone and you will have to speak into it. So although you can’t hear like anything’s being produced, it is, and it’s going to be appearing on the video. I don’t intend to hold any specific biological breaks. But you guys know where everything is. Please get up and get yourselves some coffee, tea or water or whatever you need. And the washrooms are just over here on the right. Any questions? Let’s begin then. So the first person today I’ll ask to call up is Dr. Robin Roth. When they come up here, they’ll introduce what they did, and their lessons learned.

>> I too am excited to learn from all the information, and all of the experience we have in the, in the room today. So, the PowerPoint is actually an illustration of how not to do PowerPoint when you’re doing lecture capture. Unintentionally, but I, I’ve been sick, so I didn’t have time to do anything fancy. It will keep me on track, however, because I tend to go off track without a PowerPoint. So effectively, this course has been run a few times as a blended course. And I’m just talking in general terms today, I’ve tried a few different things out. But, it’s it’s been run a few times this way. It’s about the politics of climate change. It covers both physical science as well as social science. And there’s a strong international component to this course which did lead some of my pedagogical decisions which I’m not gonna elaborate on too much today but talk more about kinda the blended components. If you’re really interested in the international component I’ll be around and you can chat with me later. So what I’m going to do is course structure, kinda how it fed into my learning objectives. And some of the tips and, and lessons learned and so on. So, basically this course has been taught between 90 and 140 students, it’s a second year class. The tutorials have 30 students in them. And the international tutorial, which is populated by refuge students on the Thai Burma border, when it’s offered that way, runs between 30 and 50 students. There’s a TA assigned to each of these tutorials. I just use Moodle and Camtasia Relay to do kind of what’s considered lecture capture. So this is what goes on. Every week, the first week I show up in a tutorial. Okay, so the first class is the tutorial, I show up, I give them an introduction to the class, we chat, we talk about how it’s gonna be run. After that, before they come to their next tutorial, they will watch two to three lecture segments from the privacy of wherever their laptop happens to be or perhaps iPad, or whatever it might be. So, they watch two to three lecture segments, so they run between 20 and 40 minutes. Students prefer the shorter segments, sometimes I have to go on for 40 minutes. So I try to keep them relatively short. Sometimes they’re videos, so sometimes it’s a short, five minute, here’s this video, this is why I want you to watch it, think about these questions, go to the video, right? And then come back. So this is the kind of segments that would be considered lecture material. They also have to of course do the readings that are assigned. They will then also post on the discussion forum. And I give them an assessment value for simply posting and the posts are in answer to a question I post and those questions are gonna test to find whether or not they’ve been doing the lecture section, do they understand it, do they do the readings, do they understand it. Okay. And then we are going to come to their extended tutorials. So instead of a one hour tutorial it’s an hour and a half time slot, it’s about 80 minutes, right? And they also get some assess, some grades for showing up, and for participating at that tutorial. Sometimes they also will have done an online activity, prior to coming to tutorial. So, something that they need to do, maybe analyze a website, the content of a website. Maybe do a, the eco-footprint exercise, whatever it is, and then come with that material to tutorial. Okay, so this helps me meet some like what I would call the content learning objectives. So really this helps them understand by doing all of this stuff, environmental changes as a physical as well as a social phenomenon. They learn what key perspectives are and learn how to apply them to environmental change. They examine the role of power and ethics in international climate change negotiations. The fourth major learning objective of this course, is, is met, through this partially, and then through the next thing I’m gonna talk about. This is really about investigating how physical and social aspects of global environmental change manifest themselves differently in different countries. In order to meet this objective. I’ve designed a group assignment that is partly done online. So each student is assigned a learning group. Okay, and there’s four to six students in that group. One is taught internationally at least of those students are refugee students. In this learning group, they have to do five short assignments, one of them, one to two are co-written, I’ve done it differently different times. And three of them are individually written, or four depending on what year we’re talking about. The first assignment is basically an agreement of how to work together. All of the working together happens online. So they’re given a chat, and they’re given a discussion forum that are dedicated to their learning group on the Moodle site. And so they need to learn how to use those. They talk to each other about when their assignments are due. When they, because there’s a peer review portion of this and they, they set out basically a set of rules and consequences for how to work together online. So part of the deal is that they conduct peer review. I’ll talk about the most recent time I did this. They conduct peer review of each other’s assignments. So the first assignment is, this is how we work together. The next three assignments, they’re each assigned a country and each individual has to answer in the first assignment, what are the contributions to global environmental change that this country makes. The second assignment, what are the effects of global environmental change on this country? And the third is sort of, what’s this country doing about it? Right? Each of those individual assignments get peer reviewed by each other. Okay? And when they hand that assignment they say, hey, this is the, this is the feedback I got. This is how I respond to the feedback. Here’s my assignment. Ideally, that should improve their assignment. And then the last assignment, assignment five they have to use each other’s work to compare other countries, right? So that’s how that basically works. And then they do a reflection at the end on their own and their group members’ contributions to that group learning process on that group assignment. This is really frustrating for students. And and I find that group work helps illustrate the difficulties of working together. And this free-rider syndrome this is what students are always concerned about. It’s like I’m gonna do all the work and other. Well guess what, that happens in global change negotiations too. So I get to tie it into the course objectives quite firmly. It also however helps develop skills and how we can do it better. And I make it clear to them that we can’t get over some of these really intractable global problems without learning how to work together. Oftentimes, across, certainly difference in terms of expectations? Whose gonna do what? Levels of, you know, I wanna A, I don’t care, I’m happy with a C, right? These kinds of things but also in instances where international students are involved and even here in our own classrooms. Language differences, cultural differences, and so on. So some of the skills that I think that, that this kind of course and the way that it’s structured help depart in years where refugee students are involved, there’s a set of international intercultural competencies. Synthesizing and presenting case study material that comes out of this group assignment. Working effectively in groups. Writing concisely and effectively. These assignments are really short. Another thing that frustrates students but it really helps them to learn how to write concisely. Critical personal reflection and assessment, also a whole host of technical competencies, online communication abilities and project management skills and this is something I’ll return to in my, in the last slide that’s really about my lessons learned and my thoughts about it. And also listening and reading critically. This is really tested in the discussion form and on the test. In most cases it’s just a final exam. Okay, so one of the things that I found is that it’s really important to make contributing and collaboration part of the assessment. If I’m expecting students to do it, I need to reward them somehow. I wish the world didn’t work that way, it does. So I do that now even if it’s small amounts, five, you know 0.5% here and there, it really does provide them with motivation and then once they start doing it, they are doing it for other reasons, but the first few times they want to know that there is, there is payback. This is something I’m also still working on, aligning assessment with expectations. So, I was so stressed out the first time I did this group thing, and I was worried that students weren’t going to want to do it, it was gonna be too hard, they were worried about getting lower grades than they wanted. So I didn’t make it worth much. Kind of backfired, cuz it was a lot of work. So I decided then to say, okay, if this matters, if it’s really part of the course, it’s going to be 40% of the grade, let’s do it and do it right. So that’s one of the things that I’ve certainly learned. Transparency, it’s really important that they know when they’re getting into this kind of course what it, what it requires of them. And this is not for everybody the discipline time management thing, really important try to set the, you know, give them links to to resources online where they can learn how to manage themselves better. I did find that across the board when students didn’t do particularly well on the final, and I went back and looked at how frequently they were doing stuff, and when, oh, I’ll just leave all those lectures until the last month, and cram them in there or something, and it didn’t, it didn’t work very well. So I let students know that from the beginning. I also am very transparent about the sets of skills that they will learn by doing this kind of class, that are beyond the material lecture. Global environmental change presumably care about it. And that matters but also some of these technical skills are very much part of their daily lives. But to hold them in a professional manner, is something that’s really important and transferable to the work place. So I try to make that really transferable, so they know why we’re doing it. It’s not just like for flexibility’s sake or to entertain me, but that there’s a real takeaway from, from doing this kind of course. This is something that I’m, I’m actually a little shocked that I’m saying it out loud, but I’m going to anyhow. The year prior to going blended, I took my in-class lecture time to start to record some lectures of material, so like, so like parts of the science part of my class really don’t change that much. Right? What, how the greenhouse effect functions? I don’t need to review that lecture every year. Unless I had a cold the time I did the audio taped it, that was a problem. But cuz then they know But for the most part, I do record parts of my lectures ahead of time, the ones that don’t, that aren’t gonna change, and I can reuse them year to year. If I happen to scrap them one year and redo them, that’s great, it doesn’t matter. But at least I have some things in the can, so to speak. Delivering lectures at online experiences is different and it takes a while to figure out. You can’t do it this way. It’s boring to have to sit there and watch that, like with no one else to talk to. So I’ve made them shorter, I’ve added more pictures, more links to videos. More animation. You have to move the, that’s the only thing they have to look at, right? So, I try to make that as dynamic as possible. Not what I did today. But that’s, that’s basically what you have to, to do. I’m also thinking about changing some of them into Prezi, cuz it’s more of a dynamic interface. It does take time. And there are times when I’ve been frustrated, I feel like my whole week has really been about management of the groups and things on line. And not actually teaching. So, that’s been the one kind of frustration with me. But, I think that the better I get at Moodle the, the better off I’ll, I’ll be and I think the easier that’ll be. But the first few times around it takes more time than you would expect. I’ve been told to stop, so I will do so. Thanks. Are there any questions? About some of the specifics of what I talked about?


>> At this stage.

>> Are any of the sessions in person?

>> Yeah, so the tutorials are all in person. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that. In fact, there’s one other thing too. All the tutorials are in person led by a TA. I show up depending on how the course is structured each year. I’ll show up to each one for a few minutes or every second one for a few minutes to do Q and A with the students based on the lecture material or to cover anything the TA’s weren’t able to cover. And I weigh in on the discussion forums. So that’s how that works.

>> Thank you very much. It was very interesting. How much grading work is involved in that? I’m a bit like afraid


>> It sounds, it sounds wonderful to have these discussion forum stuff, and you know, but, it sounds like a lot of work.

>> Yeah, well, with the discussion forums, for that reason in part I don’t, I tend not to grade the content. It’s sort of like, did you weigh in and try to engage? Cuz, I sort of feel like that’s, that’s the goal, really, and even if if they’re engaging the material and grappling with it, and trying to understand it to the point, where they’re confident enough to pose a, an answer to a question, then they get their full mark. So, it’s a presence absence thing, it’s a lot easier to mark. If they’re completely way off base and it looks as though, they’re just like, creating something, so they had something to go on there, I ask TA’s, to keep an eye open for that. But otherwise, it’s not that laborious. There’s functions within Moodle that allow you to say, okay when did someone post? And you can look, just go student by student at the end of the year. It’s not that, that difficult.

>> Also confidence is very, very innovative, how you structure your course.

>> Yes.

>> My question is around the presentation or the recording of the lectures. Do you just audio tape them, or also use video tape and if you audio, how do, which, software do you use? I haven’t had a lot of success with software.

>> Well, I use Camtasia Relay, which is what they support here on campus, which what it does is capture my voice and whatever’s on the video screen or on my computer screen. And so this is why it matters what’s on that computer screen a lot and make sure that it’s dynamic and moveable. There is a new functionality, and someone can, maybe, correct me if I’m wrong, but Camtasia 2 does have, like, a head capture thing so, like, a talking head can be in there. I have used it once, but the, the support for it wasn’t overwhelming, and it, and it meant that I couldn’t like lecture at like 11:30 at night with my hair wet. So, I didn’t, I don’t use it very much, but you can apparently.

>> And my follow up to that would be is that free to the user of the service and who gets charged for it?

>> Who gets charged for it? No, I think it’s free, right? I mean to the faculty members who want to use it.

>> Yeah, so what you do is request a Camtasia account, and then when you, it’s really easy to use you just it’s on your computer, and then you have to have a web. No, you don’t have to have a webcam if you’re not going to use a talking head.

>> In your classroom, is there no webcam, just the screen plus your voice? Whatever is on your computer screen, that’s what’s put out. If you want to do you’re little talking head in the corner, that’s only if you do it remotely in your office or home.

>> Yeah.

>> But, Bob, you should add to that it doesn’t capture the documents projected.

>> No. It only captures whatever’s on your computer screen. [CROSSTALK] on the screen,

>> What is that?

>> Projectors aren’t set up to

>> What’s on the PC, not the screen the screen on the wall

>> The PC.

>> So if you use the projector, it won’t capture.

>> Yes, that’s right, PC, not

>> That’s right, so I’ll just re, repeat that, so yeah, it’s on the PC screen. So whatever you have on, you know, showing on the screen of your computer is what it’s going to capture. Which is why I said it needs to be as dynamic as possible. So yeah.

>> Okay, thank you very much. We do need to move on, but if you didn’t get a question answered please make a note of it because we’ll have another opportunity for questions at the end. And so I’d like now to invite the next speaker up, which is Lucy.

>> Oh, thank you very much. So thank you for being here. Thank you for doing this Susan, this is awesome. This is not like to discourage myself. I know nothing about computers. I’m lucky when I can turn it on. My two-year old niece runs the iPad better than I do. When I signed up for the course, on learning how to blend a course, I was terrified. I don’t know, it was like, this whole like, I must expand myself kind of thing. And I went and I took it on and now I love this. I want to like take my grad course online too, like it’s just let me walk you through why and what happened. I’ve only done it once, and it’s this course, it’s a four, it’s a fourth year course, Psychology of health and chronic diseases is there a lighter on this too, is there a light on it?


>> The green button. Oh, okay, got it. Okay, so, it’s a, it’s health psychology course, even though it’s in the School of Kinesiology, there’s sort of a, a stream in kinesiology that’s health psychology related. And, we talk about the role of psycho-social factors in various illnesses and in health, very research-focused course. The other, as I was thinking about the course, what I understood too, one of the things we talk about is health behaviors. These are the things that we all do every day around our health, right? What we eat, brushing our teeth, it’s all health. A health behavior that we all engage in is this, when we’re not feeling well, we go online and we try to diagnose ourselves. We diagnose our moms. Right? And so, I thought this course can be about teaching people how to play Dr. Google in a way that’s critical, and to help them evaluate, cuz if you’ve ever tried to diagnose yourself, there are multiple sources. You will always have something fatal, right? Within the next 20 minutes. And it’s very difficult to know if what you’re reading is credible or not. So that became sort of the covert objective of the course, to help students to figure out how to do this. So it was a blended course, obviously, 70% online and 30% face to face. And this is actually right from what the students were shown when they first met with me face to face the first day. So, I told them to expect lectures, but only when we were together. I went a different way than, than Robin, I didn’t do the Camtasia. I decided that, because of this sort of, covert objective I had, as much as possible, that we used in the course, had to be freely available online. Okay? So that if you wanted to know about the psychological factors important to dealing with cancer, right? That, which is what we do for a couple of weeks in this course, that most of what I gave you, should be available to you, whether or not, you are in a class. I’ve prepared some guiding slides, I’ll show you an example in a minute. So then, they have readings, they had videos, TED Talks, documentaries, testimonials. All sorts of levels of evidence. All right, so those were chosen purposely. Again, right? From an expert in a field, right down to, you know, Jenny who has this disease telling you about it on YouTube, okay? Websites, blogs, and then we had the Fora and the chats and right away our first lesson was what is excellent netiquette? I didn’t want to deal with swearing and bullying and all those other things that can happen, and, and Susan provided some links to resources for the students to read on that. So guiding slides, so they would go on to Moodle, download the guiding slides and basically this was the instruction. Use these slides as worksheets to complete as you review the week’s materials. Once you’ve completed this, join us on the forum. So something like this. Very concrete, worksheet, you know. Read a study. What is the design of the study? Then some, so that’s like right out of the study. And then some what are the major strengths and weaknesses, so they might have to think about it a bit. And then answers they would have to generate themselves. Right? What would the next study be if you were continuing this research program? That sort of thing okay? So different activities. And then when you’ve finished that stuff, come online. We had three different types of threads, at least on Moodle. Two types that I initiated. I, I’m just calling them this, I’m sure they have a real word name, but I don’t know what it is. Open fora and closed fora. I’ll tell you what those are in a second. And then the student initiated ones. Before we go into what happened online, this is so important. You have to set boundaries. You can literally spend all day, every day, online with the students, chatting, and posting, and finding links, and following the links that they post. I’ve created for myself what made sense in terms of time blocks. I told them a little bit about what those were so that they wouldn’t, you know, freak out when I didn’t answer their email at 2 a.m., that kind of thing. And it worked well. Okay, so an, an open discussion that I initiated so for this week again, this is just one of the guiding slides just pulled it or, or right off the thread, just cut and paste. So once you have completed this week’s readings and that week there was a Scientific American Frontiers episode, so watching something they might see on PBS, watching it more critically thinking about what’s the evidence, right? Come to the discussion, let’s generate a research question. A good study to test a research question that came up in the readings. So, let’s develop our research questions. Suggestions? This thread back and forth, back and forth by the end of the course, we had a research proposal. It was a lot of fun. Started from questions, measures, well how are we going to measure that? Well go up and find out. Who are the subjects going to be? Someone else went and found that sort of thing. So a lot of fun. Closed discussions, very different, concrete question. They read or, or watched videos about pain and sensitivity, so children born without the ability to feel pain, phantom limb pain, pain after an amputation. And then, very concrete question, right? Integrate these two things. Questions posted by me, and you can set up the Moodle. Again I don’t know the right words to use for this, but you can set it up so that a student has to answer the question before they can see what everybody else has answered. And so they are sort of generating their own answer and then they can, by reading what was posted beforehand, they’re reinforced in their reading. If they’re way off base, they can think about why was I so off base, that kind of thing. Okay, so that’s very concrete. What I found much more enjoyable, where the student initiated discussions. So, just gonna give you some, I don’t know if you can read this but it’s okay, I’ll, I’ll sort of tell you what it says. So one category of those were students asking questions. So this student, I only had couple weeks of notes that I could access while I was preparing this. Oh, I’m in a rush. Okay, I’ve only got three minutes. So this student asked a question, right? She read that 40% of women go through placebo withdrawal. I wonder if men are as dependent. So I pop in right away. Well, what does the research suggest? Another student, same day, like just a few hours later, a second student says, I just read a couple of articles. Not required. Not my idea, student went did a lit search all by himself, found some articles, while he was doing that came across this other term, nocebo effect, which is the opp, just the opposite of placebo. And discussion just took off, everyone’s talking about gender differences, everyone’s talking about nocebo, it was awesome. Students also begin a discussions. So not just a question. This student had an awesome experience of going to, so spent a week or so online reading about how complementary alternative medicines are sort of placebo and blah, blah, blah. Went to a York graduate exhibition where they were trying to recruit homeopathic master students. So she was like well, what’s happening here? Launched a huge discussion. Interestingly, so my role in that come back in, mirror, summarize for the students, encourage them to keep doing research on it and I just want to show you, that discussion was started in January, April 10th it’s still going. Okay? Students are so engaged in these materials. So at last example, I think in terms of time, students extend the application beyond the course. This student, in February, went to a track championship, she’s she’s one of our star athletes and said, you know, I really start to think about placebo in sport. And it wasn’t just like a fleeting thought, it was something she thought about enough to bring back. And that launched a whole other discussion for the students. So my role in that was to sort of extend outside of health psych to sports psych. And to encourage again, always, the students to do more research, which they did. In terms of evaluation, we had some assignments and tests, participation. And like Robin, I didn’t give them enough credit for this. This should be much, much higher. I didn’t anticipate what ended up happening. I’m not going to walk you through this, but, anyway, the cred, the assignments were all based on what I’ve already said. Sort of taking something that’s online, a blog, and alright I’m with you, taking a blog or something and applying the scientific evidence to it. Alright. Is this well written? Or taking the scientific evidence and creating a blog, or, you know, so learning how, how to read more critically in the future? What did the students think? They were highly engaged it was a thousand threads all the time, they added to the materials. This whole issue of, is this on the test kind of disappeared. They kept going back to the earlier week’s materials and reinforcing that learning, it kept happ, they really formed a community and I just kind of visited now and again. They loved the flexibility, right? They could access it whenever they wanted. I think the repetition of the same sorts of things in different formats is helpful around different learning styles. I think that we met the learning objectives and outcomes and I was excited cuz they were writing in full sentences, it was really, really exciting. But there were some students, and, and this is something I’m hoping we can talk about more, especially those of you who have more experience with this than I do, who, who didn’t like this very much. They were reluctant to participate, they wanted things to be more structured. And they were ones who were all about, is it on the test? And I got this wonderful comment, she makes us learn stuff that isn’t on the test.

>> So, you know, you gotta be careful. You know, and, and, I think some of this is that they don’t have this skill set. They don’t know how to extract information, they’ve, if they don’t have to memorize, right? They don’t know what to do. And so I have to stop here, and I just have some ideas for the future. Thank you very much. Oh, it’s okay. My, this can wait’ till later, alright.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Thank you very much. I really appreciate your presentation. That was nice.

>> Thank you. One question I have, you mentioned that you, there was lots of student engagement.

>> Absolutely

>> On discussion board

>> Yes

>> How do you measure that?

>> By the number of threads started, the number of students participating, I only had about 20% students who didn’t participate almost every day. Okay, so you, you take the different number of students divided by the total.

>> Yeah, basically.

>> Because it could be four, five people person continuously going back and fourth

>> And there were a few of those. There were certain students who posted every day in every thread, multiple times. You know?

>> Right. But, but almost, except for that core of students who really did not like this, most of them were participating.

>> So 80% different students Okay, that’s great.

>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

>> Yeah, thank you.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Was there any other question?

>> Hi there.

>> Hello. So you mentioned parceling off blocks of time.

>> Yeah. So that you can compartmentalize it in terms of responding to students what did typical day look like for you?

>> [LAUGH] Well if you, you see all these emails you get terrified. Then after the panic attack you go back. I told the students that I would read the forums, at least once a day, for an hour. I ended up doing it much more than that. So probably, couple of hours a day, we had chat sessions which I didn’t talk about today during the, you know, because in the course calendars, there are certain time allotted for the course, even though it’s blended and online, so during that time for at least half of the block, it’s a 90 minute session. So for about 45 minutes of that I would be available, almost like an office hour, in the chat room, they could come in and chat. And so I often doubled up that time with responding on the discussion forms. But you’re involved in it every day. It’s a lot, well, it’s only the first time I’ve done it right? So maybe in the future, it will no longer be, but right now, it was a lot more work than a regular class. In terms of the number of hours you’re spend, spending with the students.

>> And I was just curious how big your class was, how many students?

>> There were 200 students.

>> 200 students.

>> Yeah.

>> So how did that make the forums?

>> Huge.

>> Right.

>> Yeah, there were hundreds of responses every day. So, there were probably ways, things I could have done to minimize that. Like I, there, there are ways to turn off discussions so that they can’t go back to the previous weeks and, you know, but I didn’t want to do that. Because I sort of liked seeing how that discussion was evolving. So there are ways to con, manage your time better, it, it’s all kind of how much are you willing to, to invest and engage with them. >> That might be a good topic for discussion on the table.

>> I think it’s a huge one, yeah.

>> I think we’ve got time for one more question.

>> Yeah.

>> You started off saying that you don’t, you weren’t you didn’t see yourself as being technological. This is a new adventure.

>> Oh, God, no, no.

>> How do you see yourself now?

>> Oh.

>> And where in the process did things shift, or did they shift?

>> They, you know, they’re sort of in transition. Like I kinda know what I’m doing. We’re really lucky to have you know, the support we have as faculty. I asked a lot of questions and sent a lot of panic emails. But part of what I’m hoping to get from here is, is more learning, like I still don’t know how to do things, like people do things like Wiki groups and all that. And they all sound wonderful and I want to learn how to do them, but they scare me, so, yeah. That’s where I am. Still scared. Yeah.

>> You actually got one minute left, is there any

>> From the previous slide that you rushed through that you just wanted to say in your tips?

>> Oh my what I want to do in the future? Well okay, I talked about learning some group work. I think my evaluations were sort of, sort of what works well for a face to face class because we had sort of big assignments. So I would do it differently next time. I would have smaller, quicker evaluations sort of one question, like a paragraph each time sort of thing, I think that would work better more often and I would change my grade weighting, much larger grade weight to part. I just didn’t expect them to participate anywhere near as much as they did and it could be a group effect, right? Every class is different and next time I may get nothing, right? But based on this I would revise it.

>> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Perfect.

>> Awesome. Thank you very much every one.

>> And we’ve got Dr. Zorn next, Cael Zorn.

>> For me, I went the opposite direction. So I started with a, a fully online course and then went blended and thought I’ll see what that’s like. So I had in class, then fully online, and blended. So it was a really different experience for me because I had to understand what the benefits were to being blended because I already knew what all the benefits were to being fully online. So it was interesting for me. And I have in class 50 students, online 150. I do have TAs, I have more TA support in the fully online. And I divided the, the two hours and 50 minutes every week into roughly a two hour lecture, but it’s interactive mini lectures with assignments. And then a tutorial which was the 50 minutes. So in the fully online and in the blended, it worked that way. With the blended course they had to attend, four three lectures a month. And then there was one lecture, that they watched online. I found that I had to put a lot of structure into the courses, whether they were online or blended. And that took a lot of practice, a lot of mistake making, things blowing up in my face and seeing where it went. But what it’s come down to for me, oh and the other thing I need to say, and, and Carol knows about this cuz she teaches the same area as me. This is a critical thinking course. A Gen-Ed course offered in the Philosophy Department. The catch is it’s skills based. So it’s like trying to teach swimming online. In that sense, so what, what we teach them is how to think for themselves from the ground up as much as that’s possible. So we teach them about argument, argumentation conceptual analysis. So I had to really learn about how to teach skills online. And how to promote deep learning that way. So that was a very big challenge for me cuz it, only a small part of my course is content. It’s how to do something. So I think it’s best given that I only have a small amount of time to talk to you to talk about the best practices and the lessons learned. And you can ask me other things you want to know about the course or other things. Nest practices for me has been a lot of structure. And like some of the other speakers, giving marks for everything. Absolutely everything I need them to do. The structure that I come to, has been what I call LPAs, and TPAs. So lecture participation assignments, very small. Once weekly and tutorial participation this, this addresses what you were saying about more participation. Big participation mark, it’s skills they have to practice. So, LPAs and TPAs that are all submitted online even in the in-class section, everything, all of their work is submitted online weekly. Because it’s so much harder for students to succeed in an online course or a blended course because of, there’s more self-directed learning and more self-discipline involved. I had to have time limits. I had to say this LPA has to be submitted by 11:00 PM on this day. This TPA has to be submitted by this day at this time. And then I would post weekly in Moodle what they were so they could see them. And they were all different exercises. And some of them involved viewing something. Something on Youtube, I used a lot of Youtube. Or listening to a piece of music, and then they had questions. Or responding to reading. Three module course. One module, all of the homework is for the quality of their answers only.

>> Hm.

>> And it’s strict homework, cuz it’s foundations of the skills. Modules two and three, it’s for completion only. But, for completion only I had to have strict guidelines on what the grading criteria was.

>> Mm-hm. So, if you wanted to get an A on your, you’re really doing your completion, you had to draw on course material, for instance. I said if you just give gibberish or you don’t make an effort, you have to draw on this much course material. And that kind of thing. Even for completion. I said you’ve got to, to have that. And students delivered and they were so engaged and I found the more structure that I gave them into, in the website and in terms of when things were due, the more comfortable they were. I think with the whole thing. So so best practices was the lots of structure, never show them anything if the, if, if they don’t have to fill something out and submit it and grades attached to everything. Another best practices thing for me was I call it reciprocally adaptive learning environment, which is just a fancy way of saying I think the best kind of online or blended learning course is one that has the ability to evolve and change while the course is going on. So I have several practices that I use to do that. One of them is that I use ombuds buddies. They’re volunteer students in the class who a, who are like ombudspersons. And if students have something they want to tell me that they don’t like about how the course is going, whether it’s something about the way I’m teaching, something about the workload, an, a, a question on the test that was pitched too hard, something like that and they don’t feel they can email me or speak with me even though I’m always telling them, you should feel free to come to me. I understand that there’s that power issue. They can go ombusbuddy and in a class of 50 I have two. And I get some many students who want to be the ombusbuddy that I sometimes say, fine okay, we’ll have four this year cuz everybody’s interested and students will email them and they’ll tell me anonymously, I won’t know what the issue is. And I can make changes. And I tell them at the beginning of the course that there are things I can’t change due to senate policies after the first two weeks of classes. But everything else? It’s open for change, so this way there’s a com, a communication. It’s like understanding, okay, how are they experiencing this? What parts, you know, could, could you change and adapt in that way? The other best practices thing, or something that you really need to keep in mind is that in spite of your best intentions, no matter how democratic they are, there will be students who don’t experience it the way you intended it. And that I found that when I first started designing fully online courses, which I did first in 2005. I discovered that my best-laid plans, in the beginning especially, they never really turned out, and what happened was my attempts to enable community on this site. Community would erupt in places I never expected it. So I began to respond to that, like I would see, oh, so I use something called dedicated discussion rooms. Which is that one discussion room is called post questions for the Prof here, another is called post questions for other students here, another is called post questions for the TAs here. And even doing that the, community happens. Just in places that you never expected and you have to be open to that. So the biggest adjustment that I had to make in teaching online and blended learning was my own discomfort. And there were times I felt that the rug was pulled out from under me and especially when things didn’t work out well in a module the way I had planned, I felt like I couldn’t come out looking good. So I was honest with the students and Camtasia is wonderful for this. That, I use Camtasia and Moodle, it means I can sit at my desk and make a coaching messages and if I see that there are problems and I also something doesn’t work I can right away sit at my desk make a message put it on the site saying, hey everybody this didn’t work. I wanted this to work, and it didn’t. So I’m gonna change this and I can tell them about it. And yeah, so, and I’ve used part of the LPAs and the TPAs involved discussion rooms. Another best practice is to always have a feedback loop in the course. And the way I do that, is if they have to watch something, then they have homework about it. Then they have a discussion about it, in groups, whether those are private. I have used private learning teams. I’ve also used you know, the open forums. And they also have the LPA or the TPA, that addresses some other aspect. Like, a house scene from the front, a house scene from the back. But they get feedback by doing all of that. They get, they get immediate message about whether they’re understanding what they’re doing in various ways on the site. I know I don’t have a lot of time, one minute, I want to point out some things on my handout. I’ve talked to you on this handout to leave it with you about deep learning and cognitive apprenticeship model of learning. A blended or online course will allow you, unconvinced and it certainly has allowed me to go well beyond what is possible in a conventional classroom. So it’s allowed me to have more contact with students than I do in, in the classroom. I use coaching messages, I’ve got a little easy things you can do today to make a change. Video welcome messages on your sites. I always have them. And that’s where you talk about your boundaries, you talk about this is gonna be more difficult yeah, you’re gonna have more and you can coach them. Video welcome messages, mentoring messages and coaching messages. That don’t necessarily map on to exactly what you are doing in the course but they address the students’ anxiety. In my 13 years of teaching at university, the anxiety of students have gone through the roof. And right now most of the decisions that I make are addressing student anxiety, we can talk about that later, omsbudbuddies, add a coaching and mentoring room, train them on the technology and there’s a bunch of stuff here that we can talk about so.

>> Thank you very much and just to reiterate the, tha, the, all the handouts were emailed to everyone so.

>> Oh, okay good.

>> If you don’t have an extra copy on your table. Are there any questions for Cael?

>> Okay. We’ll start at the back and work forward.

>> So, after the third highly interesting presentation and many, many good tips. It didn’t exactly lower my, my anxiety.

>> Mm-hm.

>> [LAUGH]

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> I have to say because to me it sounds you know, it’s if we will be, becoming 24/7 instructors.

>> Right.

>> So that brings me to the question what’s the indication that student’s actually prefer blended
courses? And it may not be a question for you or for you alone. Maybe a more general question but I think we should discuss it at some point in time. Do we have data that data that students actual prefer blended courses, or online courses?

>> Yeah.

>> Because maybe the anxiety of students is even higher in an online environment.

>> Hm.


>> Well, two main things that you said I wanna respond to. The first is our anxiety as faculty and your workload. We’re used to being experts. We’re used to having control of the classroom and the, the thing that caused me the most anxiety was not having the kind of control I thought I did. Well, you know what, it turns out in the classroom, I don’t have that kind of control either really. The the first time you offer a blended or online course, it will be a lot of work. The second and the third time, it will s, it will feel like less work than your in-class section for sure. I do use prerecorded lectures. I have no problems doing that. I, now it’s really a breeze, but the first time? It completely consumed me. And the anxiety I, I dealt with it by always letting the students know it was there, and sharing with them that this was a new experience for me too. And that we would all figure this out together, and, and structures, I put structures and design in place that would give me that, keep that ear to what okay, how are they feeling? Coaching messages, video messages, and one more thing is the, I, I’ve discovered I, in 2006 I was the second professor in Canada to have video podcasts of my lectures. What I’ve discovered is that they don’t care so much to see me. This is another thing, they much prefer the audio. And they like to learn on the go. The mobile learning, big thing for them and it accommodates different learning styles. But the video, they don’t care as much for. So, I don’t know if I, if I address that for you but we can talk more about it after. But the workload, only the first time and the second time. Then, it, you’re gonna have more time to do your research. It feels that way to me. And I don’t feel like I’m constantly online. So, but the first time it took over everything, and a lot of things went wrong the first time. No question.

>> Did you want to ask your question now?

>> Oh, I think, was there a question over here, I think.

>> It’s okay. Thank you and I’m glad you raised the issue of, oh the load, you know the working load. Since well to question the first one, does your course include no TAs and if it does, how do you deal with the 270 hours, because as faculty member, you know, the first time you do it you did it on your choice and probably you worked more than 270 hours.

>> Right.

>> But when, when you’re having your tutorial assistants what have you done and did you end up having to do much more?

>> Yeah, I’m, I’m going to be honest and say that I couldn’t do it without the TAs and that the TAs contract hours are not quite enough for me to do, to promote the kind of deep learning I want. So I have taken a bit of responsibility for that and it’s meant the LPAs and the TPAs that are weekly. Guess what? They didn’t fit in their contract hours. That’s a little harsh. So that means that all those weekly lecture, participation, I’m doing. So I found ways around that to make it faster for me. One is module two and three are completion only even though I have a criteria. So all I do is, is, have they done it? And look at it, quick look at it, they get a mark. Module one though is actual homework, so what I’ve is done made it so that the, in the contract hours the TAs are grading the homework part, that takes longer, and then I’m doing the, the other stuff. But I’ve gotten much faster at it, and I found ways, you know, just sort of get around through trial-and-error, but I must say, the first couple times, and, and even so, the contract hours don’t cover everything I really need them to, and if you don’t have TAs, I don’t know if you could do what I’m doing, to be honest. Like, the blended you could do, but the fully online, I don’t, like my fully online class has a 150, and I get really good support from the philosophy department, so I have two TAs for that and I couldn’t do that but mine’s skills based too so it’s a little different in that sense, they have to practice every week and they have to get lots of practice. Did that answer your question? Okay good.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Thank you. Thank you.

>> Where is the. This is it. Oh right here. Okay. Okay, so I might actually address some of the questions that were just being raised about amount of time and how this works for faculty members? You know, what I’m here to talk about today is a little different from what some of the other people have shared. I just wanted to talk about sort of, from the, from the expected to the unexpected: what I loved and didn’t love about teaching an online course. The course that I taught was fully online. So I’ll just talk about some of the things that you might want to consider if you are thinking about developing an online, a fully online course. And some of the things that you might really enjoy about that experience and some of the things to anticipate that might be just a little bit more challenging. Okay, so just to give you a background on what I actually taught. It was a second year course in Social Psychology. This is pretty much a standard lecture course that is kind of typical in second year for psychology. The evaluation typically is two midterm exams and a final exam, so not a lot of essays going back and forth in the same way as some of the other courses. For this particular course I had taught it previously a few years back, so it wasn’t fresh in my mind but I did have lecture notes for all of it, and I taught it in class and I also developed it as a correspondence course. So I really saw the opportunity to turn this into an online course. As effectively meeting some of the needs that the correspondence course was potentially meeting, but simultaneously providing a much richer educational experience was what I anticipated. So, for the online course what I decided to do was actually record my lectures, so basically record what I typically would do. So, something similar to what I would do in class. For the students to watch online. And, I use Camtasia Studio recording for this. So it’s similar to Camtasia Relay but you do have the opportunity to then edit your lectures which was good for me cuz I noticed in playing them back, I say a lot of ums and and do sort of silly things and I learned over time that what I could do is just continue recording. So if I start into some notes and, you know, mess something up along the way I can just sort of restart at a given point and then I’d go back and rewatch it and edit out the parts that were a little bit bumpy. So so that made for tighter recordings. And I also decide for pedagogical reasons to have two lectures per week instead of the typical one. Typically, this course is taught in a one three hour time block and I think this is a very practically thing that we do here at York because we’re a commuter campus so it does make sense to have these three hour blocks. But we know pedagogically, this isn’t ideal for student learning and retention. So, this actually permitted me to break it up and actually have two lectures per week because there’s no classroom to coordinate or anything along those lines. Okay, so why did I decide to teach an online course? My own personal motivations were a mix of things that might also ring true for each of you. I actually was a former Atkinson faculty member and in psychology, we ended up merging into the Faculty of Health. And before we merged, we sort of all made this commitment that we were still gonna continue to try to support nontraditional learners. So historically, we were the ones who taught night courses and summer courses and correspondence courses. And so this really fit with that commitment that I’d made to my colleagues. I also felt as though there was a benefit to York University. It’s clear that this is sort of the way of the future, not just here, but a lot of universities, that a lot of places are going online. And so really, I felt as though, you know, it potentially would be contributing to this vision. But what I’m going to talk about primarily for just a couple of minutes is as a faculty member who might be considering moving online, what are some of the potential benefits for you and definitely and sort of doing a cost benefit a, analysis I decide that definitely that the benefits would probably outweigh the costs. So what are some of those benefits? One of the first ones for me was, it seemed like it would be a fun thing to do. We can talk about if it has been a fun experience for everyone. For me, it actually has been. So learning new technology, figuring out how to record my lectures. Just getting into this, it seemed like sort of a fun and new thing to do. And so, I was kind of excited by that. I also really like the idea of having greater flexibility with my time, so you can record your lectures on your own schedule whenever you want to and you don’t need to be in class at a particular point in time and I really like that aspect to it I also like the idea of potentially laying a foundation for teaching again, online. So what was just mentioned with respect to, I think the first time you teach a fully online course, it is, anticipate more work than what you would typically be putting into a course but you sort of anticipate that it might be a little bit less work or at least, you know, at most equivalent to an in class course afterwards. So there are parts of recordings that you can re-use depending on how well you do them. And, you know, you have to re-record various parts but there are pieces that you can use and reuse so that’s kind of nice as well. And that gives you, frees up your time to do other things in your course and so we’ll talk a little bit about how to jump into this as well and and how much you want to jump in your first iteration. And again, as I mentioned, I really like the idea of breaking lectures into smaller parts. In part, for me, I find the three-hour lectures, sometimes, by the end of it, I’m, I’m spent. But also, I felt there would be a real benefit to student learning by doing this. So I did actually find that these benefits were realized. So I did actually find that that I was pretty happy with the experience. And that I was pretty happy that the benefits that I anticipated were in line with what I actually got. There were also cons that I considered starting into this process. The biggest con was the potential time to learn everything. And definitely I left this a little bit to the last minute and it did have some panic moments that fortunately LTS was able to just sort of calm me down and get me on the right track. So, I’m very thankful for that. But I also found that the technology once I got into it was easier to learn that I expected it to be. So that is something that’s kind of nice about it. I feel like we are well supported now. We are in a position where the technology is there to support this. But again, it probably also depends on how advanced the functions are that you are using. So my approach was to really start basic and not use too many advanced functions and given my course structure it was very easy for me to do that. So definitely I would recommend if your course lends itself to that. Starting with that and then moving forward okay three minutes. Depending on what your needs are, and that’s what I’m continuing to do now is just to figure out a few more of the advanced functions to see what else I can do. I was also a little bit concerned about a lack of direct feedback from students. So typically when you’re in a classroom, you know, you make a joke, or you do something, you say something, you get this immediate feedback from students where you sort of know, okay they’re on board with me, or you do a little demo and straight away you’re like, none of them seem to get the right answer on that. Let’s revisit that. And so I definitely had a concern that if I was bonding with my computer face to face, you know, just trying to envision the student who was laughing at my jokes it just wouldn’t be as fulfilling of an, an experience for me. And that I might actually lose out on some of what I do in teaching you know, in terms of responding. I actually found that not to be such a con. As some people have mentioned, you know, I put up discussion forums. And people would have these really deep thoughts that they would express online in a way that truthfully I will take one or two comments in class sometimes on a given thing, but they will not go into the same level of depth that will online. So actually you get to have a deeper sense, in some cases, and again I think I can structure my course even better in the future to be able to, to even pull that out a little bit more, relative to how I have it structured right now. But even providing the opportunity, because they don’t actually get credit for discussion right now. It’s completely optional. But I found particularly my first iteration, I was completely shocked and blown away by the level of discussion. It was, it was much deeper than I expected it to be. And I was also concerned about decreased student learning, that students wouldn’t actually learn the materials very well and I actually found that by the end course, the final grades were comparable to the in class version, so. That made me feel a little bit more comfortable that potentially they are learning in a comparable way to the in class experience. The one thing that I will note though is that you do tend to, and I knew this from teaching a correspondence courses, you do tend to get more non-traditional learners. And because of that there does tend to be a tendency to have to deal with more deferred exams or just special circumstances or, or different things that come up that don’t happen as frequently in class. And I do attribute that largely based on my experiences to the students who will tend to take an online course. That you do have a sub-section, that are just in different circ, circumstances. So you sorta have to be prepared for the extra time that, that’s going to take you as well. So the cons basically weren’t as bad as I expected, at least in that first iteration. So would I do an online course again? Yes. Would I recommend teaching an online course to other faculty members? Yes. But it really depends on the course. I think some are easier to adapt than others. And I would recommend it definitely for established lower level lecture courses. And I just recommend integrating more advanced features gradually. So I also considered showing you my Moodle site and just showing you sort of what this online course looks like. I think there’s some difficulties with technology around doing this so, oh, and was this a positive experience? Yes. The technology’s user friendly, we just need to use it. But I’m welcome to share with you, you know, what a course like this would look like, you know, in the time remaining if people are interested or, or after after this course. So, I just wanna thank the many people that facilitated my ability to actually get this online course going because there were a number of people who, who did provide sort of key feedback at critical times which was really useful. And I’ll just open it up for any questions.

>> Question.

>> That was a great presentation and I was sitting here getting anxiety all over again.

>> Right.

>> Last fall was my first online course and I did not do all the things which you said we should do. I have a very interactive in class course and I thought this is going to be the same as my in class course.

>> Yeah.

>> And I was just inundated with problems.

>> Right.

>> And it was just so much, because I was using as much technology as I could find. Yeah.

>> So, one of the things that I wanted to ask you

>> Yeah.

>> Is, that I found that I got a lot of push back from students, because of time management.

>> Right.

>> I expected you to do the same sections that I did for my in class.

>> Right.

>> So that because I knew.

>> Yeah.

>> That you would get behind.

>> Yeah.

>> And one of the things that I found was is that they pushed.

>> Yeah.

>> And they said, I did an online course because I didn’t want to have to do all this.

>> Right.

>> I just wanted to do a midterm and a final.

>> Yeah.

>> And maybe one assignment.

>> Yeah.

>> So I’m just interested in what others felt because it, it was one of the hardest things to, to deal with.

>> Yeah, and I usually, I mean, it’s really interesting, I, I think it’s a great question. I think it’s really interesting just hearing what some of the other speakers had to say about how you structure your course in a fully online environment, or a blended environment as well. Because I think it is sort of this tradeoff between, you know, I have thought about, I think I will give a minimal percentage in the future, for just doing some of the demonstrations and contributing to the discussion forums by a certain deadline. But I, I want to make that pretty open because the challenge that you face is, yes, you want to structure things in such a way that you encourage students to be, to stay on top of everything, in the, in the at the pace that you typically would in class. But simultaneously, I think we do get some learners that, you know, I have these two weeks, I’m a professional athlete or I am a competitive athlete. I’m going to be gone and training hard for those two weeks. I want to be in a position to catch up on the course. And that’s why I’m taking an online course. So give me that flexibility. I know I’ll be prepared for the exam. Just give me that flexibility. And I’ve actually found, you know, I do find, and this year it’s worse. Then this is my second time teaching it. That they are dropping off. Like, I see the discussions aren’t as rich. I see that the students aren’t, they’re not with me as much and they are doing a little bit more cramming. Not the top students. But you can tell you’ve got a segment that are dropping off and cramming. And so it is, I sort of struggle with how to structure the course to benefit those students who are top students and have, but have other commitments. But will catch up on the material versus pushing those who are just, you know, well there’s a lot going on in their lives but it may be going to the party or it may be something else right? That you want to redirect them and make sure that they are staying on top of the course material. So I’ve actually found the, the feedback that I got from students was definitely much more ownership. So I’ve had some students say like, you know, when I give them that in-class exam, cuz it’s the only time I see them, which is a really strange experience in and of itself. But I’ll ask a number of them as they turn in their exam, I’ll say, how was that? How did it go? And I’ve had more students say to me, fair exam, I just, I wasn’t as prepared as I should have been. And so I actually feel as though many more of them are taking on the responsibility more for themselves. That’s been my experience, but again, I have a very minimal expectation of them too, right? So they sorta know. And I put it up front of them, like, at the beginning I’m like, this is not for everyone, you need to be self-directed, and if you’re not, this is not the right course for you to be taking. So, I sorta put the illness on them, and then they need to figure out whether or not they can do it. But I don’t know if other people, I mean other people may have other responses to that because they’re different ways to manage it, right? Because you can sort of, you can provide a lot of structure and for some students that’s gonna be fantastic, right? So yeah, I’m sort of

>> I have a follow-up question.

>> Yeah, absolutely. As I said I became overwhelmed.

>> Yeah.

>> So by the ninth session, so much push back I said fine your marks for participation stop here.

>> Okay.

>> If you want to do the rest of the exercises you can do them.

>> Yeah.

>> But I’m not going to penalize you if you don’t.

>> Right.

>> When I did, when I did the assessments for participation.

>> Yeah.

>> Didn’t take marks off.

>> Yeah.

>> But the ones that got the best marks in the class

>> Yes.

>> Had done them.

>> Still did them.

>> The as, the other, they said it was too much,

>> Yeah.

>> I took it to heart.

>> Yes.

>> They said they wanted to do it at their own space,

>> Yeah.

>> Pace. They didn’t do it.

>> Yep. That’s crazy.

>> So, just, that’s just something that I’ve learned

>> Yeah.

>> And because it was a lot of work,

>> Right.

>> But there were many many cases many

>> Yeah.

>> Things to do

>> Yeah.

>> But lady you don’t wanna do it, then don’t do it.

>> Yeah.

>> And it showed up. I think their marks would’ve been better if I had continued all the way through, but I, I just couldn’t stand the pressure anymore.

>> Yeah, possibly and it is, I think it is a challenge as an educator, right? Because I feel like, you know, I’m actually trained as an elementary school teacher. I didn’t want to teach little kids because you do need to discipline them for, you know, you have to force them to learn. And my philosophy teaching adults, I mean granted they are young adults, but adult, and some of them aren’t but, is they need to learn and that if getting a C in my course instead of an A is the learning experience that oh I need to take ownership and, and stay on top of my material, that might be their learning experience. But I’m also not trying to cause ’em undue anxiety right? I mean I think it’s all laid out pretty clearly what they need to get accomplished, what they need to do, and it’s all very reasonable in terms of the expectations. So I think they do recognize that they haven’t stayed on top of that, it’s, you know, they, they know who’s responsible for that. So I think it is a real challenge in terms of this question of how do you motivate students and really encourage them to stay on top of the material in a timely way, while simultaneously giving them the flexibility that a fully online course ideally will provide. So I think, I think it’s an absolute challenge. And yeah, I mean I think the first time around that’s always, the first time my decision was absolutely, I’m not doing anything fancy. I’m going to stay as basic as I can and then over the years I’m going to, every year I’m going to try to add in an extra fancy piece and see how it works because I think if I had fully jumped in yeah, there would have been the possibility of just failure in certain aspects. That I think can be really discouraging as a faculty member as well. So that was sort of my orientation, cuz it’s hard, it’s, it’s hard. You’re already putting a lot of time into learning the technology and, and recording the lectures and doing all of that so.

>> Okay, you did great, thank you.